Meeting Start Time: 7:08pm
Opening Prayer – Kim Winden
Meeting Overview, Introduction of Staff, Framework – Trevor Carney
Staff Present: Rev. Myra Brown, Fr. Jim Callan, Rev. Celie Katovitch, Mike Ramich, Lauren Urzetta, Siobhan Potter, Aaron Lynch, Ruth Cowing, Mark Bennett, Jim Smith, Amy Durkee, Eileen Hurley, Mark Potter, Lisa Koegel
Professionals: Brian Timmons, Mike Tyson, Paul Kane, Ray Barber, Kent Youngman
Numbers attending: 43 online, 208 in person – 251 total
REV. MYRA:
- This is the largest group we have had at a parish meeting.
- Many people were not at the 1st PCF meeting so did a recap.
- Dreaming into our 25th anniversary. Myra went over the history of Spiritus
- (See power point presentation HERE)
MIKE RAMICH:
- Gave financial investment to date. His handout total is about $177,000 annually. See sheet HERE.
- Discussion about DUPC and financial strain, such as paying a portion of radiator cover, sound system and roof redo for Celebration Hall that we barely use.
REV. MYRA/POWERPOINT SLIDES:
- We started looking at buildings to see what was out there (see slide show HERE for list)
- Difficult to find a church that has more than 200 seats and has sufficient parking.
- We came to the first PCF and asked for a vote to let us submit a letter of intent. This was approved. We have not bought the building.
Brian Timmons – Real Estate Agent:
- A lot of buildings are historic and can’t make changes.
- First thing to do is write a letter of intent when doing commercial property buying.
- Buying price, due diligence – time period a time when engineers come in and say what you need to do, what needs to be done before buying, then we decide what price we are going to offer.
- Lawyers write up letter of intent for commercial property versus residential property which a real estate agent does.
REV. MYRA/POWERPOINT SLIDES:
- At first PCF, parishioners voted to submit a letter of intent
- Decision to hold a second PCF to discuss how everyone feels
- We will decide if we are going to go for an all parish vote (will be done at a future meeting).
- Timeline for letter of intent and open houses
- June 23rd: 45 day due diligent started
- Before that, we did a needs assessment from parish
- We asked professionals to come like engineer, architect, elevator firm, building inspectors.
- We had 3 open houses with hand outs and asked for survey completions
- Updated budgets given out
- Aaron Lynch did a video tour for the “across the miles” people.
- Put together a team of parishioners as a Building Exploratory Committee
- Surveys: over 250 were received – Rev. Myra & Lauren reviewed each one
Concerns (expressed on surveys):
- Sanctuary size
- Balcony line of site
- Choir musician space
- Adequate religious education space
- Accessibility
- Water damage
- Asbestos / mold questions
- Parking
- Safety
- Cost of repairs and renovations
REV. MYRA:
- Received an estimate for lift to second floor and basement
- Had a roofer come to see where the water damage was coming
- Not black mold – the mold is bleach removable
- We don’t have all the reports tonight so we will not be taking a vote tonight
- Apologized that the timeline slowed us down
Joys (expressed on Surveys)
- Entrance
- Beautiful sanctuary and building quality
- Feels like home
- Storage space
- Excited to be in a neighborhood
- Office space
- Religious Education in one building
- Industrial kitchen and hall
- Control over space
REV. MYRA:
- Purpose tonight is to discuss how we are feeling about moving and building
- If we move, it is because the parish says yes. If we don’t then we don’t – will decide as a family
OPEN FORUM
Parishioners comment followed by Staff response
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Have been involved in another building that was doing renovations and they needed to do reinforcement of floor
- Small stairs to balcony if there was a fire couldn’t get everyone out fast – Stairways small
- HVAC would need to be redone
- Must be repainted and redecorated
- Cost of everything
RESPONSE/Brian Timmons:
- We have looked for location for elevator to come in – looking at 2 lifts, one in front to go up and another one that would take you down to the lower level. Looking at a single story lift was more economical and there is a fire escape. Would only be a three person lift.
- Looked at the ramp changing to where the door to offices is
- On the second floor there is a fire escape off the upstairs and there are many doors for fire exits. First floor rated for 292 occupancy, upstairs 190 occupancy, total 582.
- Aaron talked to HVAC – only needed air conditioning in the sanctuary, other spaces use window air conditioning. Installing air conditioning would not be horrible – we are in good position to put air conditioning in building
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Looking at projections on website mortgage would be $477,000 – this is without improvements. Can we renegotiate based on what we find out?
- What would be the total with the renovations? That would need to be determined.
Mike Ramich:
- We don’t have an estimate of improvements that have to happen but the fire safety accessibility line of site needs to be completed right away.
- Engineer said for the age of the building it is in great shape.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- What do we want to do in 3 years? What in 5 years?
- Would need to do a capital campaign.
- We still don’t have a ballpark figure for what the total cost is.
- Financials should show two lines – the mortgage and separate line for renovation loan.
Mike Ramich:
- Security cost would not necessarily change.
- The numbers may change but the savings would be significant.
- We would also have equity.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
Does not feel at peace with this property – not room for Mental Health. Heard they would need a different building.
Mike Ramich:
- Mental Health has a fund balance and they are not worried about paying a mortgage.
- Mental Health feels that there may be advantages to being in a different building due to privacy.
- They would be separate like Grace of God and Nielsen House and we would support them.
- They may want to rent instead of having a building.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Disappointed we couldn’t work things out with DUPC.
Mike Ramich:
- DUPC is assessed at $2 million which is far more than what we are looking at.
- They would not take a look at our letter of intent.
- We did everything we could to talk to DUPC and they would not work with us.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Heating and air conditioning system – couldn’t find the age of the furnace – it is old. Heating and cooling is expensive.
Brian Timmons:
- The building now has a boiler that may last a long time.
- Records show it has been serviced every year.
- We don’t know how long it will last – there are a few leaks. In great shape some places.
- We saw mold but changing to a new boiler will be more cost.
- We would put in mini splits to help with cooling. They work very well.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Parking lot needs to be paved and lines painted.
- How many cars does it hold?
- What happens when we fill the parking lot?
Rev. Myra:
- There are 100 parking spots
- There are some lots in front of the church that we might get.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- How are we growing?
- If we are growing, will the building be big enough?
Siobhan Potter:
- Estimated families we have about 8-10 that come in every year
Rev. Myra:
- We are fortunate that this is not an historical building
- Largest mass is 9:30. We don’t get above 250. It would take a lot of years before we would need to worry about building not being big enough.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- We are getting into the adult stage of where we are going. What is it that we are challenging ourselves with time, talent and treasure that we are giving of ourselves? It is a scary opportunity to become an adult.
- Is there grant funding that will bring down the cost?
- It is a good neighborhood.
Rev. Myra
- We hired a grant writer who is working with 3 of our programs.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Large parking lot seems to need total replacement.
- How much would it cost and when would it take place?
Rev. Myra:
- The current church is using a parking lot that is not zoned for a parking lot – we would need permission to put gravel down and we would need permission to buy a church.
- The Child St. church needs permission from Attorney General before has ability to move and they just received permission.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- When is the 45 days of due diligence up?
Brian Timmons:
- Ends next week – we are looking at getting an extension. Standard is 45 days. No blueprints and was hard to get people into the building. We are asking for more time as we don’t have the numbers finalized.
Mike Ramich:
- At Hochstein there is a problem with limited handicapped parking. Some people don’t attend because there are not enough handicap spots.
Rev. Myra:
- Parking lot may not be the highest priority. It works as it is. We would need to get permission and drainage – it will be costly. We can have as many handicap spots as we need.
Mark Potter from Mental Health Center:
- Mental Health Center is working with their Board to come up with options.
- The Mental Health Center also now rents their space separately from church.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- There are rumors that people will not come to this neighborhood.
- We need to put on the survey “Would you leave Spiritus if we move there?” If we lose too many people we won’t be able to carry out our mission.
Rev. Myra:
- That gave me an ouch; it pains me that white people assume if they come to the city there will be too many brown people and they won’t feel comfortable
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
The religious education classes happen in DUPC and parents have to walk back and forth between DUPC and Hochstein. Is especially hard in winter. People don’t get communion until summer because they aren’t part of the church. If we are in the same building they could bring their children to Mass. Some people faze out of church during youth groups, and don’t come back because they weren’t a part of Mass and don’t know how cool the church is.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
How many quotes do we have and how many we are going to get?
Rev. Myra:
- We have a couple of quotes for smaller items but we don’t have quotes for the big items yet.
- The process will go back to the Exploratory Committee and staff, then to another PCF asking if we need to bring it to a parish vote.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Response regarding the neighborhood: I am excited that we can be part of the neighborhood and they get to know us and we get to know them and they will get to look out for us. Spiritus isn’t a building, it is a loving community.
- That community is going to teach me a lot – can teach me about a culture that I don’t know enough about. Thought is to have a dinner and invite the community to come. See if there are people that can do the work in the community, that can do the work with us – carpenters, plumbers, etc.
- We like and need to dream.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Worked for Habitat for Humanity and we parked in the police lot and never had a problem. Habitat undertook to build 100 homes in that neighborhood 7 years ago. Prices were in low $60’s now in the high $80’s. Habitat brought the whole neighborhood up.
- Neighbors are saying we are hoping there is going to be a church as we want to walk to church.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
Question about asbestos.
Mike Ramich:
- You are going to find asbestos in every building. The old boiler has pipes wrapped in it so you can encapsulate it. It is maintained by HVAC inspections every year – they monitor it and there was nothing out of the ordinary. So far nothing would need to be removed. Asbestos is also in DUPC.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- Concern about the downtown state of emergency which has been in effect the last 2 years. In the last 2 weeks, 9 homicides in the 2 mile area of church.
- I have heard people say they won’t go downtown as they won’t feel safe.
- Really need to look to increase the security.
- There is a lot of information that is not online that we need to get it out to people.
Lauren Urzetta:
- Ruth updates the website tirelessly — look at website and bulletin
Aaron Lynch:
- Regarding security concerns – crime rate here where we are is identical to crime rate in that area, may be slightly higher. In 60 days 12 reported crimes in the Child Street area, in this location 20 crimes. Where we are standing now is within 2 miles of Child Street.
Mike Ramich:
- The congregation there now has a security system we would build on.
- Now security personnel have to drive to different parking lots and it is hard to keep track of all the areas.
PARISHIONER COMMENT (YOUNG ADULT):
- As a new parishioner, this church is confusing. You are at one church for stuff and meet at another church for 9:30. What might it be like to have one building with one parking lot for people?
- When you are thinking about safety are you not feeling safe because it is new or because the people around you don’t have the same story as you?
- What could our story be if we went into the neighborhood?
PARISHIONER COMMENT (YOUTH):
- Senior high youth group has decreased a lot – many don’t have time to come as they play sports
- In new community, we could have new youth coming in
- Wouldn’t it be great if we could do our own mission trip where people come to us and do mission in the area?
Mark Potter:
- What if we could make it our own space and put the sound system in that goes with our folks – there is no draw for young people – what if we could have a look that could bring in younger people?
Paul Boutte:
- Using Hochstein and DUPC we are in the clutches of others. Every Sunday morning, sound man has to set up from ground zero – instruments have to be set up from ground zero. Other groups sound great because they have the chance to get it right over time. The streams are not great because we can’t get it perfect. Sound is not great with streaming but videoing with Hochstein is difficult because he doesn’t have time to set things up
- There is a whole lot of gray hair in this room. We have to prepare for the next choir and the next minister. Having our own building is the best thing to do. Waiting for another building there is a catch – the churches in the city are small and the only big churches are black churches and they aren’t selling.
Siobhan Potter:
A lot of families won’t sign up to religious education because they have to go to a separate building and they don’t want to leave their kids in a separate building.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
Feel like God is saying this is where I want you to go and I have some people for you to meet.
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- On big projects we should always get a second opinion, a second estimate, don’t rely on just one.
- Surprisingly a lot of money for Hochstein.
- Request – Can you put the next forum meeting on the calendar on our website?
Ruth Cowing:
- Next PCF will be in bulletin and on website [as this one was]
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
- In 5 years the rent will be over a million dollar a year
- Look over time at what needs to be done and over 5 years there may be a big surplus that may help with other renovations
PARISHIONER COMMENT:
What would we need for a certificate of occupancy?
Rev. Myra:
- As soon as we get the numbers we will get them out and come together to have another discussion.
Closing Prayer – Kim Winden
Meeting End Time: 9:06
Meeting Facilitators: Trevor Carney, Kim Winden
Notetakers: Bridget Casselman, Colleen Farley
Parish Community Forum Facilitators:
Trevor Carney
Colleen Farley
Matt Liston
John O’Gorman
Kim Winden
Dave Winden